logo for the website of Fathers for Life
Fatherlessness, the lack of natural fathers in children's lives
| Home | In The News | Our Blog | Contact Us | RSS button | Share


Fathers for Life Site-Search

2013 04 15: Symantec (makers and distributors of Norton Antivirus) and O2 now filter/block the website of Fathers for Life and *BOTH* of its affiliated blogs. Click for details.


 
 Site Map (very large file)
 Table of Contents
 Activism
 Children—Our most valued assets?
 Educating Our Children for the Global Gynarchia
 Child Support
 Civil Rights & Social Issues
 Families
 Family Law
 Destruction of Families
 Fatherhood
 Fatherlessness
 Divorce Issues
 Domestic Violence
 Feminism
 Gay Issues
 Hate, Hoaxes and Propaganda
 Health
 Help Lines for Men
 History
 Humour
 Law, Justice and The Judiciary
 Mail to F4L
 Men's Issues
 Suicide
 The Politics of "Sex"
 Our Most Popular Pages
 Email List
 Links
 References - Bibliography

You are visitor

since June 19, 2001

Be notified of
page updates
it's private
powered by
ChangeDetection

BADGE
 of
RECOGNITION

censored-stamp

Yes, the website for Fathers for Life and its affiliated blog are being slandered and censored. (Click for Details)

If you are a fathers-rights or pro-family activist, then it is quite likely that your website or blog is being, slandered and censored, too. (Click to check that out)

 
 
 
 

Communism is worse than Capitalism

Feminism is communism ó Objections and Refutations


From Aaron Burr's e-mail discussion list; 2003 04 25

 

To whomever wrote in response to me:

Please read my responses to yours inbetween the lines.

ORIGINAL PROPOSITION STATED:

The real power in this country has been on the Right for a hundred years or more, and it could be argued rightfully so due to the threat of communism.

Why is Communism worse than Capitalism?

I REPLIED:

Dear People,

This is a VERY important legal and sociological question to the Father's Rights movement.

First, we must identify things.   Feminism is "communism." ....

[And the objection was:]

Feminism is not communism. Feminism is feminism, it is all about women, not the communist ideology.

=======================

Wrong.  FEMINISM IS COMMUNISM.  Who says this?  The FEMINISTS THEMSELVES.   First, if you go to my first book at http://www.angelfire.com/home/sufferingpatriarchy   and read my first chapter you will find these proofs:

“...Ellen Wilkinson,...had served her political apprenticeship in the feminist and peace movements, and in the communist party..” [pp. 123, A Century of Women.]
“Anna Louise Strong doctor in philosophy, campaigner for child welfare and socialist party member, appeared to be the epitome of radical progressivism...(she) found herself facing empty tables at the American Unions against militarism: ‘The respectable members were returning to war work. The President’s of the Women’s Club’s were “swinging behind the President.” Only a handful of socialists, anarchists and industrial workers of the World—“Wobblies”—remained. [pp. 91, A Century of Women.]
“Cristal Eastman in contrast, challenged the political mainstream as a socialist-feminist. [A Century of Women, p. 97]
“Socialists and Anarchist who continued in opposition were severely persecuted, when Emma Goldman organized a No-Conscription League, the government arrested every young man attending the meeting.” [A Century of Women, p. 100]
“...In Europe (Margaret Sanger) researched the history and practice of birth-control, meeting writers on sex psychology like Edward Carpenter and Havelock Ellis, with whom she had a love affair. She also made friends with anarchists and socialist advocates of birth control Rose Witlop, her companion Guy Aldred and Stella Browne. Havelock Ellis was however, to convince her that the cause of sexual reform would be best served by separating it from the left.
               Sanger’s supporters in the United States tended to be linked to the Socialist Party, the Industrial Workers of the World or Anarchist circles.” [A Century of Women, p. 111]
“The Socialist-Feminist Journalist and agitator Agnes Smedley, for example, was arrested in April 1918 because of her support for Indian Nationalist as well as birth control, bringing Margaret Sanger to her defense.” [A Century of Women, p. 112]
“In 1922...the Anarchist Rose Witcop and her companion Guy Witcop...[along] with these Socialist and anarchist women gained support no only from women who were anxious to lima their families, but also from radicals committed to sexual liberation. For example, Harry Wicks describes his autobiography, Keeping My Head, how birth control and free love were part of the Battersea Socialist movement, along with vivisection and vaccination.” [A Century of Women, p. 140]
“Egalitarian in theory if not in practice, the party attracted numerous women like Dorothy Healey. Healey joined the Young Communist League (YCL) in 1928 at age fourteen and went on to serve as the leader of the Lost Angeles district Communist party for over twenty years.” [Second to None, Vol II, by Ruth Barnes Moynihan and Cynthia Russett © 1993 The University of Nebraska Press, ISBN 0-8032-3166-0, p. 189.]
“From the vantage point of an African-American feminist, with revolutionary aspiration toward socialism that refuse to go away." [Malcom X, In Our Own Image, Joe Wood, Editor, @1992, St. Martin's Press, Inc., 175 Fifth Avenue, New York, NY 10010, ISBN 0-312-06609-0, p. 41.]
...The girls became the world's first lady stockbrokers and, when that palled, proprietors of the Welsley newspaper that was first to publish Marx's Communist Manifesto in the United States. [SEX IN HISTORY, by Reay Tannahill, @1980, 1992, Scarborough House/ Publishers; ISBN 0-8128-8540-6; p. 397.]
The late Eleanor Leacock was an anthropologist and feminist who published claims of societies that were supposedly "Egalitarian," in regard both to wealth, and to sex. Her writings display a strong Marxist bent. She wrote a long and admiring introduction for her new edition of Engels' The Origin of the Family, Private Property, and the State, which was published by International House Publishers (New York, 1972), the publishing arm of the Communist Party of the USA. [Deceptions of a 'Gender Equal Society': Eleanor Leacock's Depiction of the 17th-Century Montagnais-Naskapi, by Robert Sheaffer, June, 1993]
In a new book, "Betty Friedan and the Making of the Feminine Mystique", Smith College professor Daniel Horowitz (no relation) establishes beyond doubt that the woman who has always presented herself as a typical suburban housewife until she began work on her groundbreaking book was in fact nothing of the kind.
In fact, under her maiden name, Betty Goldstein, she was a political activist and professional propagandist for the Communist left for a quarter of a century before the publication of "The Feminist Mystique" launched the modern women movement.
Professor Horowitz documents that Friedan was from her college days, and until her mid-30s, a Stalinist Marxist, the political intimate of the leaders of America's Cold War fifth column and for a time even the lover of a young Communist physicist working on atomic bomb projects in Berkeley's radiation lab with J. Robert Oppenheimer.
...Her husband, Carl, also a leftist, once complained that his wife "was in the world during the whole marriage," had a full-time maid and "seldom was a wife and a mother". [Betty Friedan's secret Communist past Why has this feminist icon continued to cover up her years as a party activist? By David Horowitz SALON magazine Jan. 18, 1999 ]

In fact, (as shown above) it was a belief [that it was] a pair of lesbian feminists whom first brought the COMMUNIST MANIFESTO into the United  States, published it, sold it, and disseminated it.  Throughout feminism's history (right up to Hillary Clinton) you will find them knee-deep into Socialism and Communism.  In fact, the Democratic Party (at whose last convention had every main speaker a female and not male – excepting one: Ted Kennedy) can be considered the modern communist party of the United States.

You are "clearly" wrong here.  Not just clearly, but "egregiously" wrong.  Feminism was socialism in our past, and it is socialism/communism now.  [Its] goals are to deconstruct the family in order to gain inroads to the control of capital:

In the origins of the family, private property and the state Engels refers to Patriarchy as a form of the family whose essential features were the incorporation of the bondsmen and the power vested in the Paternal head of the family. [F. Engels (1884). The origins of the family, private property and the state, in K. Marx and F. Engels, Selected Works, London, Lawrence and Wishart, 1968, p. 488.]  Similarly in the Communist Manifesto Marx and Engels refer to ‘The little workshop of the Patriarchal master.” Here Patriarchy is understood as a social relation of domestic production. [K. Marx and F. Engels “The Communist Manifesto” in D. McLennan (Ed.), Karl Marx: Selected Writings, Oxford University Press, 1977 p. 227.]
               However, we can see that the definition of Patriarchal advanced by Marx and Engles is a limited one. Patriarchy refers to the system under pre-capitalist modes of production in which the means of production and organization of labour was owned and controlled by the head of household, rather than a more generalized system of female subordination and male domination.”

The Law of the Father, Patriarchy in the Transition from Feudalism to Capitalism, by Marry Murray, Routledge, 11 New Fetter Lane, London, EC4p 4EE, pp. 6-7

Just the facts.

====================

[...]
"Feminism, Socialism, and Communism are one in the same, and Socialist/Communist government is the goal of feminism."

Toward a Feminist Theory of the State, Catharine A. MacKinnon, 1989, First Harvard University Press, Page 10

You trust MacKinnon? Feminists often seek to join themselves to Christianity too, does that mean Christianity is evil?

======================

The only feminists I know who seek to join themselves to Christianity are the "Republican Feminists" (I believe, I cannot remember fully the subcategory (out of many subcategories) of feminism which believes in Christianity.  Again, to quote from Volume I of my work:

In the 1970s the concept of "republican motherhood" provided the rationale for women's political activities. It also initiated a debate on women's education and led to the first female academies. The term recalled Thomas Paine's ideal of the republican as an independent, mature person dedicated to the good of society. It reflected women's newfound patriotism, which developed during the American Revolution. Republican mothers had a dual responsibility: to educate sons to be good citizens and to promote the communal good. Throughout the nineteenth century, women used the rhetoric of republican motherhood to justify their political activities, saying they could not be good mothers unless they could vote to keep wrong doers out of public office.

Women's Progress in America, by Elizabeth Frost-Knappman
1994 ABC-CLIO, Inc.
130 Cremona Drive, P.O. Box 1911
Santa Barbera, CA 93116-1911
ISBN 0-87436-667-4; pp. 258-259

However; this is oxymoronic, as one of the avowed goals of feminism is to destroy the church, patriarchy and Christianity.  This is not a guess, this is within the definition of feminism itself.

Feminism hates the church, Patriarchy and Christianity.  Period.

=====================

Its first mandate is to control mankind's free will and the resources of economic development.  Know that Marx and Engel first goal was to deconstruct both the home and family.  This is the first LAW of Feminism and socialism/communism; destroy the rule of the father.

That is no goal of socialism. Feminism and the evil rulers of society aim for this, not socialists.

==================

WRONG.  Again, you have zero idea of what you are speaking of.  Zero.

Lenin tells us: "The aim of socialism is not only to abolish the present division of mankind into small states and end all national isolation; not only to bring the nations closer together, but to merge them. . ."  How were they to do this?  The communist revolution's first goal was to deconstruct the home and family.  It wasn't the second thing they did in Communist Russia, it was the first thing:

Citing Engels that ‘it is the law of the division of labour that lies at the basis of the division into classes.’ And utilizing his observation that the original division of labour was between a man and woman for the purpose of childrearing—that within the family the husband was the owner, the wife the means of production, the children the labour, and the reproduction of the human species was important economic criteria in itself.

The Law of the Father?, Mary Murray, p. 21
cited from S. Firestone, The Dialectic of Sex, London
The Woman’s Press, ©1979; p. 14

Citing from the same work:

In The Origins of the Family, Private Property and the State, Engels refers to Patriarchy as a form of the family whose essential features were the incorporation of the bondsmen and the power vested in the Paternal head of the family. [F. Engels (1884), The Origins of the Family, Private Property and the State, in K. Marx and F. Engels, Selected Works, London, Lawrence and Wishart, 1968, p. 488.]  Similarly, in the Communist Manifesto Marx and Engels refer to ‘The little workshop of the Patriarchal master.” Here Patriarchy is understood as a social relation of domestic production. [K. Marx and F. Engels “The Communist Manifesto” in D. McLennan (Ed.), Karl Marx: Selected Writings, Oxford University Press, 1977 p. 227.]
               However, we can see that the definition of Patriarchal advanced by Marx and Engels is a limited one. Patriarchy refers to the system under pre-capitalist modes of production in which the means of production and organization of labour was owned and controlled by the head of household, rather than a more generalized system of female subordination and male domination.”

The Law of the Father
Patriarchy in the Transition from Feudalism to Capitalism

by Marry Murray, Routledge
11 New Fetter Lane, London, EC4p 4EE, pp. 6-7

We have already placed many of the feminist leaders in the camp of socialism, and now we have found that socialism/communism main intent, as cited by Marx and Engels, is to get rid of the "little Patriarchal Master" within the home in order to deconstruct the family.

These propositions are an identity.

===================

From Chapter Three of my book:....

Appeal to authority, logical fallacy. Even worse because your "authority" is a) no authority at all and b) yourself.

======================

Perhaps my words do not entreat you.  However; you have not addressed the authority of the other works I cite over and over...meanwhile, all you offer is dissonance...nothing more.  No cites...no authority, just imbecilic noise.

======================

We must understand, that feminism, is socialism/communism.[1]

Untrue.

Indeed, where Karl Marx and every communist on earth want to create a class struggle in order to control the means of production, feminists just replace class with gender.[2]

Then they are different, aren't they? Class and gender divides are interconnected, the traditionalist rightist upper/middle classes fighting for the idolisation of woman.

====================

Wrong.  You didn't read it right.  Perhaps they are different.  But, feminist are using communism, and instead of using the term 'class' to perpetrate communism on an unsuspecting American society – they are using 'GENDER.'

In other words, it is the thief using a gun instead of a knife to steal your property.   Just because you claim the gun and knife are different terms, does not mitigate the crime of thievery.

Your argument holds no logic.  Again, only noise.

====================

Where communist attempted global conquest, now, the feminist create a silent "constant state of war" implemented silently against every home and family via feminism.[3]  I find it very odd that other their party intellectuals have also made this same connection:

Everything feminists advocate was advocated by the Communist Party of the United States in the 1940's and 1950's.

Go on, prove it. Feminism is far more akin to Nazism than to Communism,  right down the parallels between Marija Gimbutas and the Nazi Ahnenerbe and the ethnic cleansing of planned parenthood.

=================

What planet are you from?  Take me to your leader.

Have you ever heard the term "Feminazi?"  

If you have, then "why" did the term gestate?  Why is it in the lexicon of American thought and vernacular?

And again, you have made my case; as "if" you admit that feminism is "far more akin to Nazism than to Communism" you will have to disprove my theory that Feminism/Socialism/Communism/Fascism are all the same plant in different stages of growth.  

I want a sidebar notation here, that it is Lenin whom said:  "The goals of socialism are to lead to a communist state."

===================

Betty Friedan, author of The Feminine Mystique (1963) and founder of modern feminism,

She was nothing of the sort.

===================

LOL.  Yeah...right.  This fact, has been documented over and over.  In fact, I think she herself has finally admitted it.  It also has been published publicly for quite some time now – and odd – that every person publishing these facts has not been sued...

Odd, no?

Would endeavor quotes to this fact?  Please go to:  http://www.savethemales.ca/150801.html and read: "What Betty Friedan Didn't Want You to Know" by that garrulous propagandist Henry Makow Ph.D., August 15, 2001.

=====================

hid the fact that she had been a Communist activist for 20 years.

Steinem worked for the CIA.

=====================

And also was a socialist.  Again, all those within Feminist enclaves are not for either Christianity, Capitalism, Patriarchy, nor even truth or justice.  Please note:

"Logic is a weapon of oppression." (Nye in PK:152)

"Logic was made for men by men." (Nye 1990:177)

=====================

(See Feminist historian, Kate Weigand's,  Red Feminism: American Communism and the Making of Women's Liberation, Johns Hopkins Univ.Press, 2001). Feminism simply transfers Marxist class analysis to gender. The aim is the same: the "patriarchy" (white men, capitalism) is the source of all evil and must be destroyed ("transformed").

Socialism has nothing against the "patriarchy". Socialism has nothing against white men. The impact of feminism has been disproportionately negative on men of racial minorities.

=================

You have zero knowledge.  Again, from my first book, quoting a University Professor, he quotes socialism as being "Anti-Patriarchy."  Why?  If it is, then why are Feminism and Socialists/Communists from the same root of the same plant in different stages of growth??

===================

Women (the proletariat) and anyone else deemed "oppressed" (gays, people of color) must be handed position and power on a silver platter.[4]

Women are the now legendary bourgeoisie.

===================

Uhm....yeah.

Whatever that means.

===================

"Feminism is the intellectual organization of gender hatred, just as Marxism was the intellectual organization of class hatred.

Socialism is nothing of the sort.

===================

1.)  Who said anything about socialism?  Why did you make that intellectual leap?
Could it be, because Feminism is an offshoot of Socialism, exactly the way Lenin saw Socialism as the pre-state of Communism?? 

Hmm.  Me  thinks this could be something called  a "Freudian slip" on your part.  I think you just admitted my case.

2.)  Socialism:  Any theory or system of social organization which would abolish, entirely or in great party, the individual effort and competition on which modern society rests, and substitute for it co-operative action, would introduce a more perfect and equal distribution of the products of labor, and would make land and capital, as the instruments and means of production, the joint possession of the community."   [From: Blacks Law Dictionary, 3rd Edition, © 1933, West Publishing Co., St. Paul, Minn., p. 1636.]

(What is very odd, is that just on a whim, I went to Google and typed in the term Socialism.  You know what the second hit is?  "Radical Women Freedom Socialist Party."  Odd, no?  What "is" the FSM you ask??   Well, don't let me tell you, here is what they say:

THE FREEDOM SOCIALIST PARTY IS a revolutionary, socialist feminist organization, dedicated to the replacement of capitalist rule by a genuine workers' democracy that will guarantee full economic, social, political, and legal equality to women, people of color, gays, and all who are exploited, oppressed, and repelled by the profit system and its offshoot -- imperialism. [Go to:  http://www.socialism.com/whatfsp.html ]

Gee...kind of sounds close to the legal definition of socialism given by Blacks Law Dictionary, no??

=======================

Feminism's business is fashioning weapons to be used against men in society, education, politics, law and divorce court. The feminist aim is to overthrow "patriarchal tyranny." In this undertaking, the male's civil rights count for no more than those of the bourgeoisie in Soviet Russia or the Jews in National Socialist Germany.[5]

Yeah, of course.

[1] [S]econd-wave feminism stands as an excellent example of a 1960s movement that blossomed from the seeds that Communist women germinated thirty years earlier.  (American Communism and the Making of Womens Liberation, by Henry Makow, PhD., October 3, 2001; http://www.savethemales.ca/031001.html

[2] Sexuality is to feminism what work is to Marxism. (From: Toward a Feminist Theory of the State, by Catharine A. MacKinnon, 1989, First Harvard University Press, p. 3)

[3] They will subvert all foreign nations using this same gender warfare as well.  I believe this is what is presently occurring foundationally in the Middle East.

[4] http://www.savethemales.ca/uw/main.html

[5] What civil rights has wrought.  Paul Craig Roberts, July 26, 2000.  Townhall.com - Creators Syndicate.

Feminism, Socialism and Communism-is the exact opposites from each other.  Like matter and anti-matter – they are totally disparate and cannot occupy the same area.

COMMUNISM.  "A system of social organization in which goods are held in common, the opposite of the system of private property;

As any Christian knows, this is the only way to run a society.

==================

No it is not.  Communism is directly against religion.  Again, are you ignorant of history?   Stalin as well as other communist regimes (China in most particular) remove(d) all religions....and outlawed them.  Indeed, wasn't it Marx who said "Religion is the opiate of the masses?"

Methink's no true Christian will countenance communism.

===================

communalism, any theory or system of social organization involving common ownership of agents of production of industry, the latter of which theories is referred to in the popular use of the word "communism" while the scientific usage sometimes conforms to the first alone and sometimes alternates between the first and second; also the principles and theories of the Communist Party, especially in Soviet Russia.  (Feinglass v. Reinecke, D.C.Ill., 48 F.Supp. 438, 440.)

As Dr. Milton Freedman....

Appeal to incredibly biased authority.

===================

No...again, all my cites come from "things" called "Dr.'s" or "Doctor's."

You mistake education for bias.  You must be a product of our national education system.

===================

Please note the delusion as quoted by Herbert Hoover:  "The Socialists claim they would preserve democratic institutions and all other freedoms except economic freedom."

Ditto.

[...]
Any Feminist government is a socialist government which devolves to Communism then institutes fascism to support it.

Any feminist government must have an element of social control.  Socialism is anti-feminist. Read a bit of Orwell, he was a real Socialist.

==================

I have no idea what you are saying.  I'm not sure Orwell was a socialist.  (I think I have heard that), however his writings do not expound that political philosophy, in fact, expose it and lend it as reprehensible.

I would suggest you (and everyone following this thread, read the work on him located at:   http://www.k-1.com/Orwell/storgaard.htm  

That URL is quite eclectic in cataloguing who Orwell was and [shows] excerpts from his diary.  "IF" Orwell was in fact, a socialist – he may have started out as one, but I do not believe he ended as one, as his work depicts.  Please note a quote of his from the aforementioned URL:

In 1943 Orwell felt that the people in England, because of their admiration for the Russian war effort, consciously or unconsciously overlooked the faults of the communist regime in the USSR. He also felt that the English communists used their position as unofficial representatives of the USSR to prevent the truth from coming out - just as they had done in connection with the Spanish Civil War.
"Indeed, in my opinion, nothing has contributed so much to the corruption of the original idea of Socialism as the belief that Russia is a Socialist country. [...] And so for the past ten years I have been convinced that the destruction of the Soviet myth was essential if we wanted a revival of the Socialist movement." [CEJL vol. 3 p. 458]  [From:  http://www.k-1.com/Orwell/storgaard.htm ]

In this you may be right however; the final conclusion of this analysis says it all from this document:

5. Conclusion
On the surface Orwell’s political development may seem filled with contradictions. After his time as a policeman in Burma he was an anarchist; a superficial one perhaps and not very consistent but that was how he felt. In the early 1930s he became more critical of society, and in The Road to Wigan Pier we see him as a socialist. But he is an undogmatic socialist who does not care much for the theories and who criticises the doctrinaire socialists, who precisely because of their theories, have forgotten that socialism first and foremost is about liberty and justice. After Spain he was very sympathetic to anarchism and was even more undogmatic after having seen what dogmatism can lead to. The membership of the ILP therefore seems inconsistent, since party membership will always to some extent result in dogmatism. But this must be seen in relation to the war, which at that time was just around the corner. Orwell was against the war and he felt that the ILP was the only party that would adopt the right attitude to the war, most likely because of the party’s pacifism. With the war a drastic change in Orwell took place. Having been against the war he was now for it; he criticised the pacifists for views that he himself had held just a few years before; and he left the ILP. With Animal Farm he took up the themes from Spain and Homage to Catalonia and elaborated on them. Orwell’s anti-authoritarianism became more pronounced as he came closer to Nineteen Eighty-Four, where we see Orwell as a fairly consistent anarchist who saw the dangers of the State and leaders in general.
As said, this development may seem contradictory, but this is because Orwell lived in the present. His views were always to some extent shaped by the situation he at any given time was in. Perhaps he only had one view. In 1936 Orwell said that to him socialism first and foremost meant liberty and justice, and this view he never left. The contradictions were in many ways a consequence of this basic belief.

==================

However; under the system of CAPITALISM, you NEED the family.

Capitalism doesn't need the family. The family is very important in socialism, in capitalism it is expendable and won't survive long.

==================

You are so wrong it is not even funny.  You must read and educate yourself; as you are just making superfluous remarks with no authority.  Just one book which controverts your thinking (out of many) is quite definitive on this question.  Read: The Law of the Father, Patriarchy in the Transition from Feudalism to Capitalism, by Marry Murray, Routledge, 11 New Fetter Lane, London, EC4p 4EE.

==================

Capitalism uses peoples individual needs in which to  have them accrue wealth.  To have Capitalism, you need families.

In what way? You are a fool.

===================

Read Capitalism and Freedom, by Milton Freedman, ©1962; University Chicago Press © 1962; also The Road to Serfdom by Frederick A. Von Hayek; as well as the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers.

All of whom were written by apparent fools.

==================

You need a free society.  You NEED sexual regulation.

Contradictory statements. Freedom and regulation are mutually exclusive.  Freedom and capitalism are mutually exlusive. Capitalism is the only  cause of poverty, starvation and so on. It is a child of greed.

===================

Wrong.  You are in direct contravention of all great thinkers from Plutarch to Freud (and beyond) who understood that "to have an advanced society, you need sexual regulation." 

The idea that you can make sex work for society, was foundationally what Marx and Engels feared, and why they called fatherhood, "the little Patriarchal Master."   They did not want him, as that person accrued wealth from his home and family, and NOT FOR THE STATE.

All family law in the US is based off of "Wisconsin Model" Article 81 Russian Soviet Family Law.  Clearly, this precept is not only an important one, it is one of which both the government, socialists/feminist take quite seriously.  Their own acts admit it.

===================

How many families did Pinochet and Thatcher destroy?

==================

Easy question:  The answer is 14.2.

==================

In socialism there can never be the underclass there is in capitalism.

==================

Tell the Russians that.

Apparently their whole society collapsed under that belief.

=================

Where CAPITIALISM needs all members of the family to voluntarily submit to Patriarchy (sexual regulation) the feminists/communists NEED to destroy the family:

Capitalism has destroyed the patriarchy, Socialism will reconstruct it.

================

You know not of what you speak.  They are completely disparate ideals.   Socialism and Patriarchy are in direct contravention of each other.  That is why Marx, and Engels, all the way up to Trotsky and beyond, made sure that the Father and Christianity (Church) were outlawed.

You cannot have state-directed control over a society and have free Fathers reigning independently within their homes.  That's like saying you are going to have cancer by having all the cells in the body be healthy.  No...Cancer needs an unhealthy cell to propagate.   It needs its own disease to flourish. 

================

"The nuclear family must be destroyed, and people must find better ways of living together. ... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process. ... "Families have supported oppression by separating people into small, isolated units, unable to join together to fight for common interests."   (From:  Functions of the Family, by Linda Gordon, WOMEN: A Journal of Liberation, Fall, 1969.

What's that got to do with socialism?

==============

That was cited from a feminist who was a socialist who declared the goals of destroying the family.  In other words, you have a socialist declaring what for so long you have been attempting to dissuade otherwise.

This is called "proof."  I know you aren't familiar with things like 'proof' – but, this discounts your whole thesis and proves socialists need to deconstruct and destroy the family.  Just like the Socialist Feminists admitted above at their URL.

===============

[...]
In other words, you cannot have a free  independent media which informs the public – and then have a Matriarchal / Feminist society.

That's exactly what we've got, fool. Capitalism is about money, the media will do whatever gets it the most money. In a socialist country it does what the government tells it. Neither is honest. A feminist society, like the ball-less American society, will breed a feminist media. A feminist government in a socialist country will cause a feminist society through a feminist media. All capitalist media will reenforce the feminism in society, only socialist media has the capability to go against this.

================

Read what you just wrote here over.  You contradict yourself and you are completely non-sensible. 

=================

In Hillary Clinton's Village, the media can ONLY be a propaganda arm of the government.

The media is always for propaganda, the propaganda of it's owners.  Capitalist media can be swayed by the preexisting views of the public  too, beyond that all media is just propaganda. Even Thatcher, in her dispute with the unions, had the BBC lie outright to make her jackbooted stormtroopers look like the wronger party.

==================

Wrong...under a free-American Capitalist society, the media controls itself.

Indeed, if your proposition was true: then how in the past did the media expose great corruption scandals, such as the Teapot Dome scandal?  How did the media expose the corruption of both, GOVERNMENT and INDUSTRY??

Under your paradigm, these things couldn't happen, YET THEY DID.

How do you explain that?  Water fluoridation?

==================

[...]
You cannot have savings, and have a government with a huge 7 Trillion dollar debt.

In a socialist country that would never happen. Nor would there be the huge budget for military and black projects.

================

I.B.I.D.  See the term "Collapse of Russia" noted above.

================

You cannot have an intelligent society under Socialism, ergo, you need a dolt school system which is dead last in world TMSS scores...

America is the least socialist of all the major countries on earth. Only Andorra, San Marino and other tax haven type countries are less so.  Socialism provides services for the people, capitalism doesn't. Based, as Tony would say, on the size of your need, not the size of your wallet.

===================

Wrong.  We have converted to a total socialist nation in every aspect.  From education to health care to government itself.

Capitalism provides a system where people help themselves.  This has proven to be one of the most efficient systems to help people on earth.  You don't have to believe me, believe the figures in regards to Family Law itself.   The BEST place you can place people on this earth, is not the single family household – it is not gay and lesbian, it is not the socialist "blended family" – the BEST place you can place a man, woman and child is in the two parent household. 

This institution, throughout millennia has been the place where people are best protected, best cared for, have the best sex and most reliability throughout their lives.  There is no other institution which even comes close to comparing to it.

================

under Patriarchy, you have highly efficient schools and an educated public as Thomas Jefferson mandated, and which this nation implemented for almost 200 continuous years (until the advent of modern feminism within our schools).

Then it's just diluted socialism. Anything publicly funded is socialism.  Why have a public school system, but no public health system, no publicly owned industries and so on? Answer me that.\

================

Wrong.  For our present school system was developed by a SOCIALIST named Horace Mann.

Once he took hold of our schools, they have devolved to the state where NOW the US is DEAD LAST in world TMSS scores.

That is the genius of socialism within our socialist controlled educational schools.

====================

[...]
> IT IS SELF-REGULATING FOR THE GREATEST PART;

Rubbish.

AND IT IMBUES THINGS SUCH AS CHIVALRY AND CALVINISM WHICH DOES GREAT THINGS FOR ANY NATION.

Chivalry and calvinism. Worship of woman combined with fatalism. Yeah, great.

=============

Yet socialism has no comparable institutions to stand up to these beneficial institutions within Patriarchy and Capitalism.

============

These systems demand free-sovereign families.   Whereas, feminism/socialism/communism has to destroy families in order to "seize control of production" (wealth).

Frankly, this is one of the stupidest arguments against socialism I've ever heard. A nice blend of incorrect facts, non sequiturs and "i'm right because I say I'm  right".

===================

Well, I suggest you count up the CITATIONS which are REPLETE throughout my arguments to you.  Add up YOUR citations (zero) and then figure out who is saying "I'm right because I say I'm right."

I will say I am right because of the innumerable AUTHORITIES I have submitted to this argument.

It is you that babbles with unsubstantiated documentation.

You are nothing but a socialist lackey, and you not only have lost this argument, I have humiliated you intellectually.

I say: "So much for socialism."  If you are the best its got, I rest my case.

===================

[...]
In fact, they lead to huge oppressive "statist" governments whom brutally control their populaces "from cradle to grave."

Pinochet.

Where freedom is constrained and overthrown.  Where huge prison systems and government infrastructures are instituted, groomed and maintained...

You cannot have huge prison populations--and have a free government.

America, as I've already said, is far less socialist than France, Holland, even England yet has a far larger population of prison inmates relative to population of country, largely from the desperate underclass only a lack of socialism could allow.

Clearly, feminism is worse than Capitalism.

Feminism isn't an economic system.

=============

OH YES IT IS...and all you have to do is READ THE FAMILY CODE TO PROVE THIS.

The family code is in fact, a socialist "transfer of wealth program."  You don't have to believe me, believe the case U.S. v. Faasse, 265 F.3d 475, 489 (6th Cir. 2001) (yet another one of those nagging "citations" I give" where the US District court admits this fact.

=============

It's time that people understand the importance of fatherhood.  Fatherhood is a basic template of freedom.   It is very much the component of Capitalism and Patriarchy.

Capitalism and patriarchy are mutually exclusive, they can never coexist.

============

Yeah...right; thanks for the citation.

Read the Inevitability of Patriarchy, by Margaret Meade, plus Dr. Daniel Amneus, The Case for Father Custody and the Garbage Generation, etc., etc., etc. ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

Yeah, yeah, I know, we are all wrong and you are right, (but still without any citations.)

================

And Fatherhood is the enemy of feminism--there is no dispute of this fact.

It is clear where fatherhood's interests must lie.  We must support Capitalism and Patriarchy UNCONDITIONALLY and excoriate and expunge anything in opposition to these necessities of all free societies.

Not in a million years, Capitalism is the root of the feminist industrial complex. Only Christianity, which looks a lot like Communism, can save us from feminism.

==============

What planet do you come from??  I dare you to find throughout the realm of social sciences, one citation where they admit that "Capitalism is the root of the feminist industrial complex."

Are you on Lithium?   Is that suppository put in right?   Has that brain cancer leaked down into your lower colon again?

Take me to your leader...please.

===============

Hope this helps.

No, it doesn't.

============

Thanx for telling us who you are.   Methinks you were too ashamed because you KNEW people here would have reviled each and every fantasy you have placed forwards here.

Just know I cannot say it long enough nor hard enough DEATH TO FEMINISM, DEATH TO SOCIALISM, DEATH TO COMMUNISM.

The are the great evils of our time, and they are one in the same...and indeed, you are part of that problem.

I know this helps.

Aaron Burr

==============

 


My comment:

It is too bad to see someone so badly informed waste a serious researcher's time by stating unsubstantiated opinions and bolstering them with nothing more than ad-hominem attacks.
   For starters, the anonymous misinformed and misguided individual could at least make the effort to read the Communist Manifesto (see excerpt from the CM pertaining to the family and related issues).  That's what communism, socialism and feminism is based on.  Why not make the effort to look at the root of it all?

—WHS

__________________

See also:

Back to original proposition

See also related articles in the history section of this website.

White RoseThe White Rose
Thoughts are Free

__________________
Posted 2003 04 25
Updates:
2006 03 04 (added link to Feminism for Male College Students)
2007 12 14 (reformated)